tv MSNBC Live MSNBC April 18, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT
trump defends his obsession by saying people love this stuff. palin says more power to him because he's pushing something, quote, that interests him. is this grown-ups talk? it sounds more likeids at a day care center talking about some new game. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. more politics ahead. good evening, everybody, i'm cenk uygur. today the republicans have taken the fight to the democrats. president obama blasted paul ryan's budget this weekend. >> it's a vision that says in order to reduce the deficit, we have to end medicare and we know it and make cuts to medicaid that would leave millions of seniors, poor children and americans with disabilities without the care they need. >> the president will be taking that exact message around the country this week in a hope to educate voters. today he's giving local
television interviews to stations in denver, raleigh, north carolina, dallas and indianapolis. tomorrow he takes his message to a republican state he won in 2008 with a town hall in virginia. and on wednesday he'll hold an interactive town hall at facebook headquarters in palo alto, california. and on thursday he heads to reno, nevada. he's going everywhere. he's not playing anymore. democratic lawmakers are also pushing the message that ryan plan is a medicare killer. all right. apparently they are but we don't have that video. trust me that they definitely are. all right. now, it's about time that obama and the fellow democrats counter attack. of course the gop is complaining that the democrats aren't being nice to them. but wait a minute, that's the same guys who had this quote on the opening page of ryan's budget plan. quote, where the president has failed, house republicans will lead. what, you can accuse him of
failing but if he fights back, you cry over it? there's ear reason why the counter attack is so important. take a look at how people perceive ryan's budget before and after they are told what's in it. they found 48% supported ryan's plan when just told that it trimmed spending and 33% oppose it. now, those are really didn't numbers for the republicans. but when told what ryan's plan really does, which is to cut taxes for corporations and the wealthy and repeal part of health care reform and make major cuts to medicare, support plummeted. then only 36% backed the plan and 56% opposed it. now look what happens when people find out what the plan actually does. that's a 23-point swing against the ryan budget. in the end when they knew all of the details of the plan, 66%, that's two-thirds of the country, have, quote, serious doubts about the plan. now that's why president obama and the democrats have to hit
the road and tell the country what this fight is actually about. this isn't just about politics, this is the only way they can actually save medicare and medicaid. joining me now, nbc news political analyst and former pennsylvania governor ed rendell. also with me reporter for the "washington post" and msnbc contributor, ezra klein. great to have you guys here. well, my guess is, governor rendell, you're in favor of taking the fight to them? >> absolutely. it's long overtu. the republicans always raise the specter of class warfare. this isn't class warfare, it's about sharing the pain and fundamental fairness. there is no fairness in the ryan budget, none whatsoever. there's no fairness in our current tax structure. >> ezra, let's talk about medicare and what the ryan plan would do. it looks like the cbo, which is non-partisan, says by 2030 that people would have to put in 68% of the costs of their medicare as opposed to if we left it alone, it would be 25%.
so that's gigantic difference. i mean can people even afford to put 68% of their health care costs? >> it's actually a bit worse than that. what cbo found is not only that you'd have to pay about 70% while normal medicaid pays 25 to 30%, it's the insurance offered by the ryan plan paubecause it moves to the private market, the insurance would be pricier so you would be paying more for less insurance than you would under traditional medicare. what the ryan plan does is it shifts costs over to seniors. it doesn't control costs in the health care sector, which is the only thing that would be a sustainable solution to our deficit problem. >> one more quick follow-up on that, ezra. i'm also reading insurance companies don't have interest in it. they don't want to insure older people that are more likely to get sick.
so they might not insure you anyway. >> in medicare we have medicare advantage and private hmos get to participate. the idea is it would be cheaper and cost the same as medicare but give people vastly more benefits. that failed. medicare advantage costs about 120% as much as traditional medicare. one of the ways we paid for health care reform and one of the things ryan keeps in his budget is it ratchets those savings back. so trying to create a private market in medicare, it failed and turned out to be much more expense sglif i thought the free market would solve everything. it turns out it doesn't. shocking. governor rendell, let's talk about the politics because the republicans are running for the hills, at least some of the 2012 candidates. let me show you a video of tim pawlenty when he's asked about this and i'll have you react. >> i like paul ryan's plan directionally. i don't think it's fully filled out in terms we have to address social security and we'll issue our plan later in this process
it will have some differences. >> what about the medicare cuts that he keeps from obama care? >> anybody else have a question besides this guy? >> apparently they don't like those questions. so are the republican candidates in some trouble stuck between ryan's plan and what the american people actually want? >> i think they're in big trouble. i think a lot of congressmen who voted for the ryan plan last friday have got a lot of explaining to do in 2012. i think swing districts in bucks county and delaware county and suburban philadelphia and even montgomery county, those congressmen are going to have a lot of explaining to do to senior citizens. i think they may have voted themselves out of office. you know, it made no sense. it made no sense. now, you'll start seeing retreats and i didn't know the details and i'm for the concept but not really for all the details of the plan. it's baloney. the plan doesn't work because it changes what is a fundamental entitlement that makes this country different from all other countries on the globe. number one. number two, it fails because
it's unfair. it gives significant tax benefits to the rich and wealthy corporations. do you know, cenk, that right now, right now, 58% of corporations that are foreign owned pay no income taxes in the u.s. when they do business here? and 34% of u.s. corporations pay no income tax doing business, of course, in the united states. that's shocking. shocking. >> they always talk about sheer sacrifice, but when it talks to shared sacrifice for the rich or the corporations, all of a sudden they're not interested in that. it's really strange. ezra, on the politics of medicare, the republicans might be in more trouble than they suspect because in 2010 their base was actually senior citizens, right? they came out to really vote for them. if very jeopardize that, how much trouble are they in? >> the republican party is more reliant on the senior vote than they have many in many, many decades. 2008 was the first election in
decades where the avrn republican was older than the average democrat. and that's simply accelerating. the republicans got 58% of the senior vote in 2010. in 2008, seniors were the only age group that went for john mccain. so that has created a little asymmetry of interests here. the republicans now have the senior vote but don't like entitlements. previously democrats had the senior vote and they did like entitlements. so republicans will have a lot of explaining to do to seniors who they attracted in 2010 by attacking the medicare cuts in the health care bill. they have the senior health care bill of rights protecting them but now they have brought all of those cuts into the ryan plan and stacked on top of them more cuts and privatization and that's going to create an interesting set of conversations around the country in 2012. >> finally, governor rendell, you know, as ezra explained a little earlier, medicare advantage didn't work, it's inefficient. you want to get rid of that, get some savings, that makes perfect sense. otherwise cutting medicare or agreeing to cut medicare as the
republicans want would seem to let the republicans off the hook here, right? the democrats aren't going to do that, are they? >> no, but i think we need to reform some aspects of medicare. one thing i'd like the president to pursue and he's starting to give signals that he will is to use the federal government's leverage buying power, tremendous leverage buying power to reduce the cost of pharmaceuticals for medicare and every aspect of our health care system. >> i would love that. >> we can ratchet down costs in medicare by just doing that one thing. >> no, no, absolutely. and i'm 100% on board for that. but i thought that part of the deal that they struck in health care reform was that they could not negotiate with those drug companies? >> go ahead, ezra, you want to take a shot at that? >> if i could jump in. in the budget plan the president announced last week, there's a couple of things horning in on that deal. the big one i think is he announced in the plan that he would like to reduce the amount of time that by logic drugs can be exclusive from 12 years to 7.
but it would save a ton of money if you get generic on to the market more quickly and it's something that until now we've not seen any willingness from the white house to do but in the face of more deficit concerns, they have become much more interested in it all of a sudden. >> and i think it's important that we realize, we democrats realize that, yes, we've got to wring some savings out of medicare and medicaid without destroying the fundamental entitlement of those programs and we can do it. >> i dpragree with you. when it comes to medicare advantage and negotiating for lower drug prices, absolutely, that makes all the sense in the world. i just don't want fundamental cuts to medicare. so great to have this conversation with both of you. thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks. >> thank you. >> that was governor rendell and ezra klein from the "washington post." ahead, outrage growing over this racist picture. a gop party official in california sent it in an e-mail. of course people are calling for the immediate resignation. what's her response? well, it only adds to the
outrage. and forget about this man being obama's worst nightmare. he's fast becoming the gop's worst nightmare. donald trump is getting into fights with karl rove, eric cantor and mitt romney. but that other candidate still craves the spotlight. >> win the future? wtf is about right. >> oh, that's great. i can't wait to tell you p all about this circus in just a minute. [ female announcer ] when it comes to keeping small spaces fresh cones can dry out quickly. that's why there's the febreze set & refresh. 100% scented oils eliminates odors for 30 days. for freshness from start to finish. the small space odor solution that's a breath of fresh air. the febreze set & refresh. ♪ [ male announcer ] doctors have been saying it forever. let's take a look.
it seems that the so-called gang of six are close to a consensus on their debt reduction plan. the bipartisan group of senators featuring three democrats and three republicans spent the last four months holding secretive meetings, but one of them, democratic senator mark warner, lelt let the cat out of the bag. >> we're going to make everybody mad with our approach, democrats, republicans, independent is
independents, because we're touching every part of the problem. >> make social security more sustainable? that's nonsense. there's no problem with social security. social security has built up a $2.5 trillion surplus since the 1980s. that keeps the money flowing at a 100% rate for at least 26 years. but the washington consensus is that they should raid social security to pay for other priorities like tax cuts. now, look, the democrats would have to be crazy to go along with that plan, but as i told you before, it looks like that's where it might be headed. that was democratic senator mark warner. look at him making the republican case again. >> you know, it's part of this is just math. 16 workers for every one retiree, three workers for every retiree now. >> that is grossly and purposely misleading. that is why we built up the social security surplus in the first place, because we knew that was coming. but washington spent that money on wars and tax cuts anyway.
look, listen to me, under no circumstances should you let a republican or a democrat talk you out of that money that you've been paying into your whole life. all those payroll taxes coming out of your checks. and if they ask you if they can cut your social security now, this is what you should tell them. >> hell no, you can't! or zero dependency on foreign oil. ♪ this is why we at nissan built a car inspired by zero. because zero is worth everything. the zero gas, 100% electric nissan leaf. innovation for the planet. innovation for all. s it hit helps the lhe of companipanies like the she smallestt ofof startups.ups.
republicans have been telling you for 30 years that americans pay too much taxes. what's their favorite quote? say it with me. we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. i've heard it a million times. but i'm going to show you why that makes no sense right now. look, first let's start with joe walsh, a representative, and he hit the same exact notes this week on abc's "this week." >> in the '80s, government revenues went up. we didn't cut spending. revenues went up in the 's 80s. every time we've cut taxes, revenues have gone up. >> not remotely true. i'm going to show you in a second but i want to show you that it's all the republicans. now here is mitch mcconnell, the leader of the republicans in the senate. he says, quote, there is no evidence whatsoever that the bush tax cuts actually diminished revenue. they increased revenue, because of the vibrancy of these tax cuts in the economy. wrong again! let me show you the real results of those tax cuts. first, let me give you somebody
that was in the bush administration. this is a senior economist -- he was a senior economist for president george w. bush. he says, quote, federal revenue is lower today than it would have been without the tax cuts. there's really no dispute among economists about that. so there's a bush economist saying no dispute, they're lower than they would have been. now, for example, what happened in the bush years after the giant tax cuts in 2001 and 2003? well, let's take a look. as you see -- by the way, this is from bruce bartlett, who was a reagan economist. what happens? revenue goes down. it goes from $2.3 trillion, to 2.2, 2.0, 1. 9. as a percentage of gdp it plummets all wait down to 16.1. so what happens? revenue goes down. how clear does it have to be? but look, these tax cuts, they didn't help everybody. they had a very specific purpose. to help the very rich. as leona helmsly once said, she
said we don't pay taxes. only the little people pay taxes. well, unfortunately, a lot of times that is true, because look at the top 400 earners in the country. their average income went up 392% since 1992 to 2007. but their tax rate went down 37%. we don't pay taxes, that's only for the little people. all right. now, how much savings did they get from the bush tax cuts just in the last year, the very rich? well, let's take a look. they got $146,000 in annual savings for the wealthiest 0.1%. did it help everybody? no. did it help the very rich? absolutely. did it decrease revenues? absolutely. are other people concerned? absolutely. you know who else is one of those guys concerned? alan greenspan, let's listen. >> i think this crisis is so
imminent and so difficult that i think we have to allow the so-called bush tax cuts all to expire. >> so you say let them expire for everybody. >> everybody. >> go back to clinton era rates. >> yes. >> even alan greenspan is saying we've got a revenue problem. you've got to let the bush tax cuts expire. will they listen to that? of course not. let me try one last thing. their hero, ronald reagan. now, he wouldn't talk about raising taxes on corporations, would he? he wouldn't talk about them paying their fair share, would he? well, let's watch. >> flatter rates will be more reward for that extra effort and vanishing loopholes and a minimum tax will mean that everybody and every corporation pay their fair share. >> reagan is saying even corporations should pay their fair share. is that enough for you? probably not. you'll still get people like michele bachmann and joe walsh and mitch mcconnell going out there saying under no
circumstances can you tax our best friends, corporate america and the richest 0.1%. they're making so much money, they bring some of that to the republican party. oh, did i say that out loud? that's what the real plan is. joining me is the editor and publisher of "the nation." katrina, how are we going to turn this around? for 30 years they have been pounding this message, you know. it's not we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem, taxes are too high. historically they're at near record lows. >> near record lows. >> so how do we get that message across? >> first of all, i think it's important that this tax day, 2011, that a lot of media and people's attention not fixed on the tea party story but fixed on corporate tax evaders and millionaires and billionaires who aren't paying their fair share. then we need a strong social movement to change this debate on taxes and budgets. there are movements around the country. u.s. uncut, which is talking about getting corporate tax evaders to pay their fair share
so the budgets in this country are not balanced on the backs of the working poor and working people. there are groups like patriotic millionaires for fiscal strength and responsible wealth, these are people with means who are saying what are you talking about? president eisenhower had a marginal tax rate of 90% on the wealthiest. in 1976, it was 70%. we may not be there, but let's have some rationality because we do have a revenue problem in this country. >> eisenhower -- >> he would be driven out of town. >> the minute he'd say military industrial complex, they'd say this guy is dennis kucinich but he's the last president that balanced the budget. i want to show you a graph because i think it's very telling. it's the difference between corporate taxes and individual taxes. as you'll see in this graph, corporate taxes take a nosedive. see the corporate taxes are the ones in red and they go way down, down, down as a percentage of the taxes paid by the whole country. now, what goes up? what's that big yellow line
going up? that's your payroll tax because you pay that as a percentage of taxes paid. payroll tax goes through the roof. that hurts the middle class the most. >> so here's the thing. in 1949 corporations were paying 49% on their profits and the middle class was growing strong. today we have a society in which all the risks have been passed on to working people and the kind of private benefits are with the rich. corporate tax evasion is a result of an armada of lawyers and accountants working to take back from the people of this country the revenues that they are owed. this needs to change, as do bush tax cuts must be ended for the very rich. $700 billion in revenues lost over a decade if we don't change that. finally, investment income must be taxed like ordinary income. why should capital gains and dividends be taxed at 15%? why should hedge funders be taxed for so-called carried interest at 15%. let me give you my favorite.
grant retained annuity trusts. don't let the rich have those for less than ten years because they are getting away with murder. >> let me give the audience some perspective here. the richest guys in the world as katrina is talking about, the hedge fund guys, that's their income. it's not an investment, it's their income, and they're being taxed at 15%, lower than you. why? that doesn't make any sense. let me give you a sense of the problem here. you know how we just went through all this pain cutting the $38.5 billion out of the budget? do you know if we just did not renew the bush tax cuts for one year for the top 2%, just that portion, there were so many other tax cuts, but just that portion would have saved $42 billion. look at that. then we wouldn't have needed any of the cuts if we just didn't give the top 2% yet another tax cut for yet another year. >> here's the problem. there are such good policies, we know what works but it is the politics. these policies don't arise out of immaculate conception. you've got lobbyist money,
private interest, wealthy money sloshing around our political system buying the system for the wealthy. we are now in a guilded age on steroids. we have a jobless crisis, not a deficit crisis. all of this is happening at a moment when the debate inside washington is suffocatingly narrow and we need the movements to break through on this issue. taxes and others. >> last thing for you, katrina, that's the problem, right? we don't have anybody representing the progressive point of view. >> we do. we have progressive caucus people's budget. go read it. >> no, no, i love that budget. the progressive caucus budget, she's right, you should definitely read it. it's fantastic. a lot of things katrina was talking about here. you've got the republicans who are corporate robots to the nth degree, this is their whole plan. but when you go to the democrats, they agree to the terms of the debate. so what do you do with those democrats? >> well, you know what i don't get, you have a moment here where the democrats could come and stand on the side of the
people, and they're standing somewhere in between and we need a vision. we need not to fight on the republicans terrain but we need -- you're going to have a politics that is not of the people, for the people, by the people, but of the 1%, for the 1%, by the 1%. >> 100% right. we need clean elections. there's no other way. >> it's one of the most important. >> katrina, editor and publisher of "the nation," thank you for joining us. coming up, our con job of the day. governor scott walker pledged not to raise taxes on people in wisconsin. it turns out, he will raise taxes. don't worry, he only wants to target poor people. you'll be shocked who the tax cuts actually benefit. no, you won't. [ male announcer ] this is lara.
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now for our con job of the day. we turn to wisconsin governor scott walker. last year when walker was running for governor, he signed a pledge to oppose all tax hikes when he went into office. he also promised to do the same exact thing in his campaign ads. >> do you want less government and lower taxes? i'm scott walker and i know how to get the job done. >> but it turns out, walker will in fact raise taxes. of course it won't be on the rich, but it turns out he has no problem raising taxes on the average guy. according to the state legislative fiscal bureau, walker's budget will cut an income tax credit for poor
families and roll back a rebate for low income homeowners. those changes will add up to raising taxes for low and middle income residents by $49.4 million over two years. but the budget will provide $83.3 million in tax cuts, that's mostly for businesses and investors. so, of course, big business gets a tax break, but the poor will see their taxes go up. he doesn't mind raising taxes, as long as it's not on the rich. walker claims his budget doesn't technically raise taxes because he's ending tax credits, not imposing new taxes. and the tax credits he happens to be ending, just happen to be for poor people and the middle class. what could he do, it's just a funny coincidence. walker's promise to lower taxes for everybody, which turned out to be lowering taxes only for the rich, is our con job of the day.
now, civil war breaks out within the republican party. it's the donald versus everyone else. he's picking fights with romney, eric cantor and karl rove. but guess who else joins the fight? sarah palin off the top row and onto the head of the gop establishment. man, this is fun. all of their angry quotes when we come back. plus slate.com's david weigel and steve core knacky on the republicans ripping each other apart. that's next. [ kid ] it was the final play. the big guy broke from the sidelines.
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it's official, we've got a war within the republican party. that must mean that the 2012 race has started in earnest. ladies and gentlemen, start your engines. this time the fight is between donald trump and the gop establishment, and it's ugly. when trump first jumped into the 2012 discussion, it looked like he was just trying to get attention. but now that he's at or near the top of just about every poll out there, the gop is getting scared and they have started a
full-scale war against trump. house majority leader eric cantor took the first shot last week painting trump as a joke. >> i don't think he is really serious when we launch -- see a campaign launched on the birther issue. >> what do you think trump is going to do about that? do you think he's going to sit back and take that? no way, of course he's going to fire back. so over the weekend he told talking points memo just what he thought of eric cantor. >> and i think it's a very bad thing for can tor to have done because i tell you, people love this issue, especially in the republican party. and there's something to what we're saying. >> this is like the wwe now. and trump takes a chair out of nowhere and swings it at romney. >> mitt romney is a basically small business guy. if you really think about it. he was a hedge fund, he was a fund guy, he walked away with some money from a very good company that he didn't create. he'd buy companies, he'd close
companies and get rid of jobs. i have thousands and thousands of jobs that i've created over the years. my net worth is many, many, many times mitt romney. >> yeah, yeah, yeah, i got it, you're rich. i think he's totally full of it, by the way, on how much money he has. even if it's true, is that a real selling point in an election? ha ha, i'm richer than you, so vote for me? i don't get that strategy. maybe the republicans are actually scared of his money and his poll numbers, because the weekly standard steven hayes randomly jumped in the ring and hit the donald over the head. >> the problem i think he has is that he's sort of a clownish figure. he doesn't really have any ideas. he was supporting nancy pelosi and barack obama two years ago. he's been on every side of every issue in every conceivable political position over the past decade. >> now, remember the weekly standard is the bastion of neocons so they're not on the trump bandwagon. but then out of nowhere, here comes the big guy, the reigning king of the gop establishment. off the top rope.
>> his full embrace of the birther issue means that he's off there in the nutty right and is now an inconsequential candidate. i'm shocked. the guy is smarter than this. the idea that president obama was not born in hawaii, you know, making that the centerpiece of his campaign means that he's just a joke candidate. >> remember snooker would do the full body slam but a lot of guys go from the top rope and do elbow from the sky. that's what rove just did and the donald is reeling. just like in wrestling when you sometimes can't tell who's hitting who and sometimes they hit the wrong guy, rove accidentally helped the president while swinging away at trump. >> now in his weird conspiracy theories, none of his family knows what hospital he was born in at hawaii. wait a minute, yeah, his family knows what hospital he was born at. nobody knows him in college. one of my white house deputies
was a classmate of barack obama's at harvard. >> so that's it, right? the donald must be knocked out by now. oh, no, here he comes again, watch out, rove! >> i heard karl rove today on television. it was terrible. he was so against me, because i am questioning. all i want to do is see this guy's birth certificate. republicans have to be very careful of that. because obviously karl rove didn't do very well the last couple of years in the bush administration because, hey, whether you like him or not, george bush gave us obama, and i'm not happy about it. >> so we've got ourselves a full-scale civil war within the gop. there's nothing more fun than when republicans attack one another. because democrats wouldn't be half as vicious to them as they are to each other. but someone is feeling left out of this parade. so here comes sarah. she wouldn't want to get left out of all the fun, so she hit
the gop establishment guys from the other side. so this weekend at a tax day tea party rally in madison, wisconsin, she showed that like trump, she's not afraid to take on the republican party. >> and yeah, i'll take on the gop establishment. what more can they say about us, you know? we didn't elect you just to rearrange the deck chairs on a sinking titanic. we didn't elect you just to stand back and watch obama redistribute those deck chairs. what we need is for you to stand up, gop, and fight. >> i love this, it's just like wrestling. you know, like when they zoom to who's coming out of the locker room and you hear the music and then it's like, uh-oh, there's sarah and she's helping trump. oh, my gosh, he hit rove. it's so much fun. basically it's sarah palin saying, wait a minute, i'm the real fake candidate in this
race. if you're going to attack anybody with a reality tv show, it should be me. all right, sarah, we got you, we got you. now joining me is msnbc contributor and slate political reporter dave weigel, author of a piece called "enter the donald, take 2." also with me columnist steve kornacki who also just wrote an article on trump called "is the right finally turning on trump." steve, let's start right there. man, they seem pretty mad at trump. that was fascinating. why are they so mad at trump? >> i think it's amazing what a couple of polls will do when they show a guy like donald trump suddenly taking the lead and even starting to put some distance between himself and the rest of the pack. i think everybody's instinct in politics, republican, democrat, media, for the last few months is, okay, it's just another donald trump publicity stunt. but he's carried this to a length people weren't quite expecting. he's done with it this very controversial rhetoric over birtherism. when he starts taking off in the polls, there's an immediate concern of what is this doing to
the republican party brand right now and it starts to enter their minds a little bit. if this guy ever got close to the nomination or if this guy won the nomination, this is a catastrophe in the fall. a few months ago sarah palin -- >> why? >> same reason. they woke up after the 2010 midterm elections, the republicans did, and they did very well but left seats on the table because in some of these key high profile senate races, like in delaware, they nominated fundamentally unelectable candidates. they looked at sarah palin and saw the same ingredients in place, so they rose up against her, sort of subtly in many cases, and delivered the message that you don't want to go near her in 2012. i think they're doing it now with trump. >> so there is a real fight between that base and the gop establishment. it's not fake, that's real. dave, let me turn to you here. are they right about trump? because trump has said many curious things in the past, given what he's saying now. you know, he said that barack obama could be a great president. he said before he said obama was
the worst president, he said bush was the worst president, et cetera, et cetera. are they right about trump? does he not know what he's talking about? >> more importantly, in 2000 when he thought about running for president under the reform party ticket, if you remember that, he was for universal health care, he was for a one-time enormous sur tax on people worth more than $10 million. so when you hear somebody like steve hayes say he's been on every side of every issue, that's what he's referring to. the club for growth today, very influential, when we talk about tea party candidates, we used to talk about the club for growth. those guys who bundle money for conservative candidates. they came out against trump this morning saying, look, he's on the record for an enormous, i think 25% tariff on chinese goods. he says we can drive the price of oil down to 40 or $50. i guess that means going back in time and killing more ferns so they become oil. we just can't have this guy take over so much of our debate, because we republicans are having a pretty good political debate we thought before this guy barrelled into it. >> yeah, you know, the thing is
he's also clownish in so many different ways. he's saying if we go into libya, we'll just take their oil. >> yeah. honest. >> i guess it's honest in a way. he says if he went in the room with opec, he could just rough talk them and they'd give him better prices. that's not how the real world works. it reminds me of bush when he said i wish i had a magic wand that said low gas. there is no magic wand, donald. turning back to the other candidates, he's sucking all the oxygen out of the room. pawlenty is trying to compete with goofy jokes. i'm obsessed with pawlenty. let's show you a joke and come back and talk about i it. >> i know donald trump is getting a lot of attention. the one thing that i think we could embrace from his other tv show, the apprentice, we should tell president obama in 2012, you're fired. i'm not one to question the authenticity of barack obama's
birth certificate, but when you look at his policies, i do question what planet he's from. you've got to give him credit for at least this. he's proven that somebody deserves a nobel prize less than al gore. >> steve, now he's remining me of bush. we should tell him, you're fired. >> you just need ed mcmahon off camera. he's hired -- he needs to hire one more speechwriter, i think. >> dave, that's the thing. i want to ask both you guys. are guys like pawlenty in a lot of trouble, because they can't get any attention and they have got to get desperate and make these terrible, cheesy jokes? or maybe that's just the way pawlenty is. isn't it embarrassing for a so-called legitimate candidate to be getting his house cleaned by trump? >> i want to hear what steve thinks too. i think he and i both wasted a number of hours in 200 zen covering rudy giuliani, who basically existed to take a lot
of flak, get a lot of coverage and implode before the primaries happened so other candidates didn't get as much attention. they got some. but mike huckabee basically dodging all real scrutiny until he won the iowa caucuses. so there is an advantage in a weird backwards way to having a couple of guys out there taking all the flak for months. >> real quick, steve, let me actually go on because that's real interesting. i think that's what huckabee is doing here. he's letting then punch each other out and will come in in the end. >>f you're mitt romney or tim pawlenty, you're feeling good because the conservative establishment is mobilizing to marginalize donald trump, it's a signal they'll do that to other candidates who emerge and pose the same threat. at the end, maybe that means that romney or pawlenty, that's how they survive. >> that's exactly right. romney has the real money behind him. that's what's going on. dave weigel, steve kornacki, thank you both for joining us. great discussion. now, next, are liberals more tolerant than conservatives?
and if they are, is that a huge disadvantage? we're going to have a real interesting conversation about that. lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. [ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro. fill an entire community with joy? maxwell house believes so. that's why we've partnered with rebuilding together to help revitalize communities in need. vote for your community at maxwellhouse.com. for dentists, the choice is clear. fact is, more dental professionals brush with an oral-b toothbrush than any other brush.
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to them during almost every negotiation lately with the republicans. honestly, i'm among those people. if you watch this show, you know. so why does that happen? could it be because liberals are too tolerant? that's an interesting theory. and it's one that was put forward by our next guest, sally is the founder and chief education officer of the movement and she wrote about this phenomenon in "the washington post." welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to start with one of your quotes from the article because i thought it was really interesting and have you respond. quote number two on tolerance versus intolerance. you say in any given fight, tolerance is benevolent while intolerance gets in good punches. tolerance plays by the rules while intolerance fights dirty. the result is round after round of knockouts against liberals who think they're high and mighty for being open-minded but who politically and idea logically are simply suckers. a lot of people will find that to be tough language. >> i've got e-mails from most of them, yes, i know. >> do you think that they're being suckers here?
and is it because they're being too tolerant? >> let's be clear. research going back to the 1930s shows that liberals are in ridiculously more likely to be tolerant, open-minded, interested in seeking out new experiences than their conservative counterparts. let's be clear because i know the first thing i'll get an e-mail on is i don't mean all liberals are tolerant. and i thank you for bucking the trend. but, look, tolerance is a really great quality when it comes to being social at a caulk pail party. but when you're in a political fight, particularly with a republican party that is increasingly extremist and intolerant, it really just makes you a sucker. >> i hear you on that but i feel like there's a difference because i fancy myself tolerant, putting the kidding aside. i'm open-minded and open to change. conservatives like things as they are, they're not as open to change. that makes sense, i get that. but at the same time, i know when to draw the line but these
guys never seem to draw the line, progressives were winning in the '70s, certainly winning in the '30s. i would say '30s through '70s. what happened? what changed? >> i think that the very nature of our political opposition among other things has changed. the irony is the democrats somehow think they're at a polite tea party. we're not talking about a republican party that's interested in reasonable negotiation. you're literally talking to a party that wants to get rid of everything that not only the democrats but our country has stood for. they're talking about getting rid of medicare, they're talking about fundamental things that have lifted up the poor and working class and made opportunity available to all. this is not an opportunity to negotiate. if you even have the conversation, you've already lost. >> in a sense, what it certainly tells you is the president's plan of preemptive concessions is done to make him seem more reasonable, but who cares, the other side doesn't care. >> part of my point in the piece is this isn't just obama's problem, it's partly him being
responsive to his base. there's a poll that came out that said in effect that republicans wanted their partisan electeds to hold their ground, even if it meant shutting down government by overwhelming majorities, whereas democrats wanted their partisans to concede. you know, if we can't stand firm on our principles, how can we expect our elected officials. to we have to know where the line is. >> so in the end, viewers, it's your fault. no, but it is a good point about the polls. now, a california republican party official refuses to resign after sending this e-mail. it shows president obama's face on a chimpanzee. come on. and you won't believe her response to all the outrage. that's next.
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accepted in an e-mail? this image of the president along with the tag line "now you know why no birth certificate." gee, i wonder why people found it offensive. davenport absolutely refuses to resign. she just can't seem to understand why this is a problem and has put out this lukewarm kind of apology. quote, i'm sorry if my e-mail offended anyone. i simply found it amusing regarding the character of obama and all the questions surrounding his origin of birth. in no way did i even consider the fact that he's half black when i sent out the e-mail. there are two huge problems with this. first, is my co-host who says these apologies where people say i'm sorry if i offended you, i guess if you're so fragile and you get offended by stuff like that, actually blames the victim and doesn't take responsibility and is not a real apology, okay. secondly and much more importantly, people have to understand the context of these monkey jokes in relation to
african-americans in this country. it's not like any other joke. look, it has a terrible history that i'm about to tell you about. but, for example, when i was a kid, people would make tury jokes because i'm from turkey, like turkey sandwich or what are you eating on thanksgiving? but who cares because there's no history of attacking turks in this country over turkey sandwich jokes. that doesn't matter. but in the case of african-americans, especially after the war, there is an enormous history of tying blacks to the monkeys, apes, et cetera, to justify brutal treatment and oppression. the idea was they're not human, so it's okay to do anything you want to them. in the early 1900s, a book published by charles carroll was among the things that popularized this idea. it was called "the negro beast." there's a great article you should check out. these jokes are not harmless. they are within the context of a society that lynched black